But by the discussions close, only one mind was changed.
The debate was between Bruce Prescott, Baptist pastor and president of the Norman chapter of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and Steve Kern, Baptist pastor and husband to state Rep. Sally Kern, R-Oklahoma City, who was in the audience.
The two debated whether the U.S. Constitution establishes or advocates for a Christian nation. The debate format allowed each speaker to make his case, ask each other questions and take questions from the audience.
This is a terrific opportunity for the public to hear two sides to an often misrepresented issue, said Nick Singer, vice president of the Oklahoma chapter of Americans United. Many national figures have made claims about our being a Christian nation, and this is a great time and place to settle that debate.
Hundreds turned out to the event, held Feb. 24 at Oklahoma City Community College, and even after extra chairs were brought in, many remained standing.
At the beginning, moderators informally polled the audience, which was divided evenly on the issue.
While the framers and a majority of people in the colonies at the time were Christians, Prescott said, the Constitution was not inherently religious and did not establish a Christian nation.
We are not debating about the history of personal faith in America; we are debating about the meaning of our Constitution, Prescott said. The Constitution of the United States makes no reference to Christianity or any other faith. There is nothing neither explicitly nor implicitly in the Constitution to suggest that our government has a religious foundation.
Kern agreed that the men who wrote the Constitution were mostly Christian, but that they wrote the document with the belief that the laws and freedoms set forth derived directly from God, and thus the Constitution did establish a Christian nation.
The Constitution is a Christian document established by Christians to preserve the Christian social order already established in the colonies, Kern said, citing several documents and writings from that time period.
Kern asked Prescott why the Constitution requires one to take an oath prior to taking office, to which Prescott said the Constitution also allows for an affirmation.
youre a Christian, you make the oath to God. If youre a believer, you
make the oath to God. But if you were not a Christian and didnt
believe in God, you could make the oath to your own humanity if you
wanted, Prescott said to chuckles from the audience.
Later, Kern received an audience question about why E pluribus unum is on the currency.
people wanted to impress you with the idea they knew how to speak
Latin, Kern said to laughter from audience. Asked if he knew what E
pluribus unum meant, Kern said he did not. After being told it meant
from many, one, Kern answered that it was the idea behind federalism:
The 13 colonies united to form one nation.
Prescott argued the U.S. was unique precisely because it was not founded on religion, unlike previous governments.
(the Founding Fathers) were declaring that in America, the government
was based upon the consent of the governed, Prescott said. In doing
so, the Founding Fathers themselves were accused of being atheists and
anarchists. They were establishing the first secular government in the
history of the world.
Kern argued the countrys shift away from its religious roots has been the cause of many social ills and a decline in morality.
can take the government out of the church, but you cannot take the
church out of government. Why? The church is people people of faith
with a worldview, with convictions, with conscience, with values. People
make up the government. The way to get the church out of the government
is to get the church out of the people, Kern said. Jesus is the only
hope for your soul. Jesus is the only hope for this nations soul. Our
Founding Fathers knew this, and so they established a constitutional
government based on absolute principles rooted and grounded in Jesus
The audience was polled as to whether anyones mind had been changed, and only one person raised his hand.
Mike Fuller, president of the state chapter of Americans United, said the group plans to hold more debates in the future.